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On the "limitation" of Li

By 张婷 老师 2023-11-16 7031次浏览

Some people believe Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, and thus seem to conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit. Then, can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity (as suggested by Bertrand Russel on page 54)?  

Post your answers online.

450 回复

  • 田瑞林 12-05

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    Kant's concept of justice centers around the idea of treating individuals as ends in themselves and not merely as means to an end. In this context, justice is about respecting and upholding individual rights, including the right to freedom. This means that individuals should be able to exercise their freedom as long as it does not infringe on the equal freedom of others.

    2.Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"

    It is important to note that while traditional Chinese society placed great emphasis on ritual, contemporary China has experienced significant societal changes. While elements of ritual remain in certain aspects of Chinese culture, the economic and political structures have evolved to accommodate modern developments.

    3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The distinction between maritime countries and continental countries is primarily based on their geography, resources, and economic characteristics.

    4.Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

    The rise of metaphysics and monotheism in Western culture cannot be solely attributed to the Hellenistic tradition. While the Hellenistic period did have an influence on Western philosophical and religious thought, it is necessary to consider multiple factors that contributed to the development of these concepts.

    Metaphysics, as a philosophical discipline, examines the fundamental nature of reality, including the relationship between mind and matter, substance and attributes, and cause and effect. The origins of metaphysical inquiry can be traced back to ancient Greek philosophers like Parmenides, Heraclitus, and Plato, who explored questions about the nature of existence and knowledge. However, it is worth noting that metaphysical inquiries were not limited to the Hellenistic tradition but also evolved independently in other cultures.

    Similarly, the concept of monotheism, the belief in one God, has roots in various religious and philosophical traditions across different cultures. In the context of Western culture, monotheism gained prominence primarily through the Abrahamic religions, such as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. These religions emerged in different historical periods and regions, and their teachings and beliefs were influenced by a variety of cultural factors, including the Hellenistic period in some cases.

    It is important to recognize that cultural, historical, and socio-political contexts play significant roles in the evolution of philosophical and religious ideas. While the Hellenistic tradition contributed to the development of metaphysics and had some impact on monotheism, it is crucial to consider the broader historical and cultural landscape to fully understand the emergence and evolution of these concepts in Western culture.

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  • 9班王家欣 12-05

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice):
      In Kantian philosophy, "freedom" is a central concept tied to the idea of moral autonomy. According to Kant, individuals possess freedom when they act in accordance with rational moral principles and their own will, guided by the moral law. True freedom, for Kant, is not the absence of constraints but rather the ability to act in harmony with rational and moral principles.

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?
      In traditional Chinese society, rituals (li) played a crucial role in organizing and structuring social behaviors. These rituals were not merely formalities but served as a framework for maintaining social harmony, defining relationships, and reinforcing ethical conduct. The economic and political structures needed rituals to instill a sense of order, hierarchy, and moral values, contributing to the stability of the society.

    3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries:
        This statement appears to touch upon geopolitical and cultural distinctions between maritime and continental nations. Maritime countries often have extensive coastlines and engage in seafaring activities, fostering trade and cultural exchange. Continental countries, on the other hand, may be characterized by vast landmasses and different economic and cultural priorities. These distinctions can influence historical development, economic systems, and cultural practices.

    4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?
      The Hellenistic period marked a time of significant philosophical and cultural development in the Mediterranean world. Influential thinkers like Plato and Aristotle laid the groundwork for metaphysical inquiries. Additionally, the encounter with various cultures through Alexander the Great's conquests facilitated a blending of ideas, leading to the synthesis of philosophical traditions. This environment, coupled with the influence of Judeo-Christian monotheistic beliefs, contributed to the emergence of metaphysical and monotheistic ideas in Western culture.

     

    No, it would be overly simplistic and a misinterpretation to assert that Confucius aligns with inhumanity solely based on the critique of Li or rituals. Confucianism, as conveyed by Confucius, constitutes a comprehensive philosophical and ethical system that extends beyond rituals. While rituals contribute to organizing social and personal conduct, the essence of Confucianism centers on ethical virtues, moral development, and the cultivation of benevolence (ren) and righteousness (yi).

    Bertrand Russell's notion of inhumanity may arise from a limited perspective on Confucianism or a specific interpretation of rituals. Confucius advocated for the harmonious coexistence of individuals in society, emphasizing empathy, compassion, and the welfare of others. His teachings aimed to establish a moral and just society, not to suppress human emotional instincts or free spirit.

    In essence, Confucianism promotes a balanced approach that integrates ethical principles and humanistic values, striving for a harmonious and virtuous society.

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  • 周雨婷 12-05

    The interpretation of Confucian rituals, or 'Li' (礼), as being in opposition to human emotional instinct and free spirit is a perspective that some may hold, especially when viewed through a Western lens where individual freedom is often highly valued. Bertrand Russell's critique, which suggests that Confucius and his emphasis on ritual could be seen as 'inhuman', arises from this potential conflict between structured social behaviors and personal liberty.

    However, painting Confucius as aligned with inhumanity due to his endorsement of Li can be regarded as a simplification of his teachings. Confucius considered Li as an essential tool for cultivating personal virtue and maintaining social harmony. The rituals and conventions were not meant to suppress genuine emotion or the human spirit but rather to provide a framework where they could be expressed appropriately and lead to personal development and societal stability.

    Confucius acknowledged and valued human emotions, believing that they were integral to the human experience. His idea of Li didn't require people to discard their feelings but rather to express them within certain bounds that consider the well-being of others and society at large. He believed that the free expression of emotions without regard for others could lead to chaos and conflict.

    In Confucian thought, humanity, or 'Ren' (仁), is the ultimate virtue and it involves a deep empathy and consideration for others. Ren is closely related to Li because proper adherence to rituals is seen as an external manifestation of one’s internal sense of benevolence and ethical understanding.

    By promoting rituals, Confucius was advocating for an ordered society where individuals understand and fulfill their roles and responsibilities toward each other. This orderliness and mutual respect are considered necessary for achieving the greater good and allowing all members of society to thrive — which is ultimately a very humane goal.

    In conclusion, it is a matter of interpretation whether Confucius’ philosophy aligns with inhumanity. From the Confucian perspective, the practice of Li helps in achieving a balance between expressing oneself and living harmoniously among others, which is deeply human and not contrary to inherent human emotion or spirit.

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  • 王微 12-05

    1 freedom

    People seek freedom, but the definition of freedom is so confused that different people have different interpretations and can't even communicate. Here I am not helping myself by trying to sort out the various understandings of freedom and exploring what it really means. In ancient China, Zhuang Zi's famous articles such as "Carefree Travel" laid the ideological and theoretical foundation of "freedom".
    In psychology, freedom is doing what you want. This means that people can decide their own behavior according to their own wishes. Such decisions are, of course, conditional. It is limited by personal abilities, information and external environmental constraints. However, human consciousness can independently choose its behavior according to various constraints.

    If the choice is made from the heart, it can be said to be free. It is not free if it is subject to external coercion and interference. Buddhism says, "You ask for yourself, and others don't want to interfere." The precise term for this freedom is the sense of freedom, which is a fundamental human right. Under the consciousness of freedom, whatever the consequences of the consciousness of freedom, people will voluntarily bear. This is a wishful choice and dignity.
    Whatever its purpose, interfering with free consciousness is an evil act against humanity. According to social theory, freedom is to act according to one's own wishes without violating others. As for matters that do not concern others, they are people's own business, and therefore people have the right to decide their own actions.

    2 The core content of traditional culture accumulated by thousands of years of Chinese history is "rites", and the politics of ancient China is basically based on "rites". "Rites" is closely related to ancient Chinese political ideas, political behaviors and political systems.
    The patriarchal system, the enfeoffment system, the service system, the title system, the land system, the tribute system, the military and political system, the criminal law system, the official system and other political systems in ancient China all belong to the category of "rites". Although all kinds of ritual systems gain or lose and change with the development of society or the replacement of dynasties, but all change, "ritual" has always been the theoretical basis and value standard of various systems of ancient society in China for thousands of years, and has always been the ideal system model pursued by the ideology of feudal dynasties in our country. Therefore, it can be said that our traditional culture and political system are basically a "paradigm" of rites.

    3

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  • 1. What is "Freedom"? The core concept of Kant's moral philosophy is freedom. In Kant's view, people not only belong to the "feeling" or "phenomenal" world, but also belong to the "conceptual" or "ontology" world. As part of the world of empirical phenomena, man is determined and unfree, and his will and behavior are subject to the causal law of the natural world. As part of the rational ontology world, man is a free and moral driving force. He is free and self-determined to choose between good and evil. Kant believes that the general principles of law and morality cannot be based on empirical human nature, but must be incorporated into the "conceptual" or "ontological" world, and built on a priori "should" world based on rational commands.

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    Compared with the law, ritual has three strengths and advantages, which can prevent trouble, guide people to kindness, and maintain the harmony of social order. Governing the world with ritual can establish a good social order, make people separate, fulfill their respective responsibilities, and avoid social chaos and contradictions.The defect of ritual is that when people do not abide by the norms of etiquette, they cannot take coercive measures to punish them. Therefore, in the long-term historical evolution, the combination of ritual and law has formed a governance method that combines ritual and law.In a word, governing the world with courtesy is one of the important ways of social governance in ancient China, which is rooted in Confucianism. The advantage of ritual is that it can establish a good social order and avoid social chaos and contradictions. However, the defect of ritual is that it cannot force people to abide by ritual norms. Therefore, in the long-term historical evolution, the combination of ritual and law has formed a governance method that combines ritual and law.

    3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The Greeks lived ina maritime country and maintained their prosperity thought commerce.They were primarily merchants. And what merchants have to deal with first are the abstract numbers used in their commercial accounts, and only then with concrete things that may have immediately apprehended through these numbers.Such numbers are what Northrop called concepts by postulation. Hence Greek philosopher s likewise took the concept by postulation as their starting point.They developed mathematics and mathematical reasoning. That is why they had epistemological problem and why their language was so articulate. They are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.

    Continental Countries

    This is the view of one who admire the natural and condemns the artificial. The way of life of the farmers is to follow nature. They admire nature and condemn the artificial, and in their primitivity and innocent, they are easily made content.

    4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?The ancient Greeks strongly focused on political democracy and freedom of thought, firmly believed in human values and dignity, and did not succumb to any secular or religious authority. With the attitude of rationalism and secularism and adhering to the spirit of free exploration, positive thinking and continuous innovation, they have brought free, rational and democratic humanistic ideas, optimistic and enterprising attitude towards life and healthy and simple aesthetic concepts to the Western world.

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  • 旷陈 12-06

    I believe that the initial rituals were created spontaneously by humans. For example, people have a genuine desire to respect heaven and earth, so they have created rituals. So ritual is not created to limit the natural spirit of humanity. It cannot be said that etiquette restricts the development of human natural spirit. Without etiquette, there can be no order. If there is no order, people cannot even develop anything. Not to mention the spirit of development.

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  • 7班郎芮 12-06


    It's important to approach such discussions with nuance and consider the historical and cultural context of Confucianism. While some people may argue that Confucian Li (rituals) are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, it doesn't necessarily mean that Confucius advocated for inhumanity. Confucianism is a complex philosophical and ethical system that encompasses various aspects of life, including moral principles, family relationships, social harmony, and governance.
    Confucius emphasized the importance of ethical conduct, virtue, and social harmony. Li, in the Confucian context, refers not only to rituals but also to proper conduct and manners that contribute to a well-ordered society. Confucius aimed to promote a harmonious and stable social order through the cultivation of moral virtues and adherence to ethical principles.
    Bertrand Russell, a Western philosopher, criticized Confucianism in his writings, expressing concerns about its potential impact on individual freedom. However, it's crucial to recognize that interpretations of Confucianism can vary, and the philosophy has evolved over time.
    To draw a conclusion about Confucius advocating for inhumanity based solely on the criticism of Li or rituals oversimplifies a complex philosophical system. It's advisable to engage in a more comprehensive study of Confucianism, considering various interpretations and historical contexts, before making sweeping judgments.

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  • 徐蕴玮 12-07

    Apparently, Confucius sets up a system of ritual regulations according to his daily deeds, speech and comments on various situations. However, all these external descriptions of a good human being  are stemmed from the inner approval of  this ideology. In fact, it is the congruity of our inner willingness and external conducts that distinguish Connnfucian school from the other inhumane and rigid prohibitions, also  from religions. The Chinese culture has always pursuing the nuance balance between good and evil, reason and emotion, as human nature are merged with both traits which are impossible to be separated. This idea can find it similarity in Plato's recognition of human being, which holds that reason and deesire are injected in the flesh when a people was born. Each side has always been contending for the dominance of humans' final behaviors since then, and when the evil or desire prevails the goodness and reason, it is bound to cause chaos. To tackle the furious struggling between these opposite traits, people should be enlightened by the social codes and positive moral recognitions towards the outer world and their inner world. That is why "Zhong" and "Shu" are the indispensable factors of "Ren".

    Some may refute that individual emotions sometimes are out of benevolence. However, even though with good attempts, it is actually become far more  controversial when the individual emotinal acts have effect on the society. Different values may lead to dissimilar outcomes from people's original intentions, and at length cause tremendous countereffects. That is why Confucius devoted himself to contrive a serious of standpoints to enlight people's recognitions of goodness.

    Besides, Confucius's proposition of "Li" indicates it own realist facet. Not expecting all the people in the society would absorb in or assent to the regulation of "Li", Confucius had already pointed out how a gentleman would cope with sophisticated relationships with the others called "Xiao Ren", or ordinary people. Various evidences can be found in The Analect, so it can be concluded  that Confucius does not exert himself to assimilate all the people's external conduction redardless of their own willingness, but sows a seed of goodness in their hearts and expects those who are inspired by his wisdom could set a an benevolent example to the rest common people, so that the  harmony of society can be guaranteed. 

    Thus, equalling Confucius intension with being inhumane is partial and lack of the insight of its original attempts.

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  • 9班张梅 12-07

    The ideas of Kant and Confucius are in different cultural and historical backgrounds, so they cannot be simply compared or contrasted.

    Kant's concept of freedom is based on his theory of justice, which emphasizes the equality and autonomy of individuals. According to Kant, freedom means that individuals have the right to make autonomous choices and decisions without interference from external forces, and at the same time, they should respect the freedom of others.

     The traditional Chinese social and political structure emphasizes the importance of rituals, which refer to a set of norms and rituals for organizing and regulating social and personal behaviors. The traditional Chinese view believes that rituals can maintain social stability and harmony, and at the same time, it can cultivate people's virtues and morals.

    The maritime and continental countries have different geographical and cultural characteristics, which have had an impact on their respective development. The Hellenistic tradition in Western culture emphasizes rationality and metaphysics, while the maritime countries focus more on commerce and exploration.

    In conclusion, Confucius' ideas are not in line with inhumanity. Confucius' thoughts emphasize the importance of human relationships and social harmony, and at the same time, he advocates the cultivation of virtues and morals through education and self-cultivation. Confucius' thoughts have had a profound impact on Chinese culture and society, and continue to play an important role in contemporary times.

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  • 3班华晓萱 12-07

    It is not appropriate to conclude that Confucius is aligned with inhumanity. Several factors need to be taken into consideration.
    1. The concept of freedom within Kant's theory of justice differs from the common understanding. Freedom does not simply mean the ability to pursue one's desires, but rather the ability to act autonomously based on one's own free will, separate from natural laws and causality. Additionally, true freedom involves pursuing an end for its own sake, rather than as a means to an end.
    2. The political and economic structure of traditional Chinese society necessitates the concept of 'Li'. China's social system is based on family autonomy and hierarchy, and the vast size of the country requires measures to maintain stability. 'Li' plays a crucial role in maintaining social and political equilibrium.
    3. It is essential to consider the reasons behind the development of metaphysical and monotheistic religions in Western culture. The supernatural attributes of gods and heroes in the Hellenic tradition provided material for philosophical exploration, leading to the development of metaphysical concepts. Additionally, the questioning of polytheism by ancient Greek philosophers eventually paved the way for the emergence of monotheism in Western culture.
    In light of these points, it is evident that Confucius' teachings should not be hastily associated with inhumanity. Instead, a comprehensive analysis of the relationship between 'Li' and human nature and freedom is necessary to arrive at a more accurate conclusion.

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  • 8班欧阳永秋 12-07

    The ideas of Kant and Confucius stem from different cultural and historical contexts, making it difficult to simply compare or contrast them. Kant's notion of freedom is grounded in his theory of justice, which emphasizes the equality and autonomy of individuals. According to Kant, freedom entails the right of individuals to make autonomous choices and decisions without interference from external forces, while simultaneously respecting the freedom of others.

    On the other hand, the traditional Chinese social and political structure places great emphasis on rituals, which encompass a set of norms and ceremonies for organizing and regulating social and personal behaviors. The traditional Chinese view holds that rituals are essential for maintaining social stability and harmony, as well as for nurturing people's virtues and morals.

    Furthermore, maritime and continental countries possess distinct geographical and cultural characteristics, which have influenced their respective development. The Hellenistic tradition in Western culture underscores rationality and metaphysics, whereas maritime countries place greater emphasis on commerce and exploration.

    In summary, Confucius' ideas are not devoid of humanity. His thoughts underscore the importance of human relationships and social harmony, while advocating for the cultivation of virtues and morals through education and self-cultivation. Confucius' ideas have deeply impacted Chinese culture and society, and continue to play a significant role in contemporary times.

     

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  • 刘品秀 12-09

    No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius or his philosophy is inherently in line with inhumanity based on the belief that "Li" organized and structured social and personal behaviors, possibly conflicting with human emotional instinct and free spirit. Confucius' teachings were focused on promoting harmony and ethical behavior in society, and his emphasis on rituals and propriety was intended to cultivate virtues and maintain social order.
    Confucius believed that following the rituals, or Li, was essential for individuals to develop a sense of respect, self-discipline, and moral character. He saw rituals as a means to maintain social harmony and strengthen relationships within society. According to Confucius, individuals should not only understand and perform the external forms of rituals but also cultivate an inner moral compass. Confucius believed that the practice of Li guided individuals towards becoming benevolent, virtuous, and empathetic human beings, enabling them to live in harmony with others.
    It should be noted that Confucianism is a complex and multifaceted philosophy that encompasses more than just rituals. It also emphasizes the cultivation of virtues such as filial piety, righteousness, and benevolence. Confucius regarded these virtues as essential for building a just and harmonious society. Moreover, Confucius emphasized the importance of self-reflection, education, and the pursuit of knowledge as means to enhance personal and social development.
    While some may view Confucian rituals as rigid or stifling, it is crucial to understand that they were not intended to suppress human emotions or limit individual freedom. Instead, Confucius believed that the practice of rituals, when approached with sincerity and understanding, could help individuals develop a moral compass and guide their behavior in a way that benefits both themselves and society.
    In summary, it would be inaccurate and unjust to conclude that the teachings of Confucius, including his emphasis on Li (rituals), are inherently in line with inhumanity. Confucius' philosophy aimed at promoting ethical conduct, social harmony, and the development of virtuous individuals who contribute positively to their communities. Ultimately, the goal of Confucianism is to strike a balance between social order and individual expression while fostering empathy, kindness, and a sense of responsibility towards others.

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  • 三班冉玉梅 12-12

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

     

    In Kant's conception of justice, "freedom" refers to the ability of people to exercise their rights and pursue their goals without external obstacles. According to Kant, moral norms should impose restrictions on freedom in order to maintain a balance between individual and group rights. Freedom is an inherent right of human beings.

     

    2.Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

     

    To rule the world with etiquette, in fact, is that Confucius and Mencius knew that their views on governance of the country, that the use of etiquette to restrain people's behavior, when the thought of etiquette deeply rooted in the hearts of the people, then the people will not rebel or initiate war, so as to achieve national stability. However, at that time, the six countries fought for hegemony, this set of ideas was not suitable for the situation at that time. With the unity and progress of society, this set of ideas began to be used by emperors, whose purpose was to control people's thoughts and restrict their behavior.

     

    3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

     

    A continental country usually refers to a landlocked country, which has no sea area and is defended by other countries around the country.

    A maritime state is a country whose territory is surrounded by sea. A country with both land and sea refers to a country with main land area and close to the sea.

    The difference between continental countries and maritime countries is mainly due to differences in production methods and culture. Continental countries with agriculture and animal husbandry as the main mode of production, relatively conservative thinking, cohesion is strong. With commercial trade as the main mode of production, maritime countries are more adventurous and have a strong sense of external development.

     

    4.Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

     

    The ancient Greeks had a strong focus on political democracy and freedom of thought, believed in human values and dignity, and did not subimit to any secular or religious authority. With a rationalist and secularist attitude, adhering to the spirit of free exploration, positive thinking, and continuous innovation, they brought to the Western world a liberal and rational and democratic humanistic thought, an optimistic and enterprising attitude to life, and a healthy and simple aesthetic concept.

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  • 16班李宝弘 12-13

    While some individuals may perceive Confucius's emphasis on Li or rituals as potentially conflicting with human emotional instincts and free spirit, it is important to view Confucian teachings within a broader context. Confucius aimed to establish a framework for ethical conduct and social harmony through rituals, intending them to guide individuals toward virtuous behavior and a harmonious coexistence in society.

    Rather than promoting inhumanity, Confucius sought to strike a balance between structure and individual expression. The rituals were meant to enhance, not suppress, human relationships and emotions. They served as a means to cultivate moral virtues and promote a sense of responsibility toward others.

    It's crucial to avoid oversimplification and consider the multifaceted nature of Confucian philosophy. Confucius valued benevolence, compassion, and empathy, which are integral to humaneness (ren) in his teachings. The emphasis on rituals was not to stifle human nature but to provide a guiding framework for individuals to navigate their relationships and social responsibilities.

    In conclusion, interpreting Confucius's teachings as in line with inhumanity oversimplifies the complexities of his philosophy. The focus on rituals should be understood as a tool for fostering ethical behavior and social harmony rather than suppressing human emotions or individual freedom.

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  • 甘梓君 12-14

    I disagree with the opinion that Confucius' Li is in line with inhumanity. 

    Li is a social norm: Rite is a social norm, which stipulates people's behavior in society, including the way of interpersonal communication and the way of maintaining social order. This norm plays an important role in social stability and order.

    Li is a cultural tradition: Li is an important part of Chinese culture, which represents the traditional culture and history of the Chinese nation. In traditional culture, ceremony plays an important role, which is an important part of people's thinking, behavior and lifestyle.

    Ceremony is a moral norm: ceremony is a moral norm, which stipulates the moral standards that people should follow in their behavior. From the perspective of traditional culture, etiquette is one of the "Five Permanent Principles of Morality, Benevolence and Etiquette" and a basic moral principle that people should follow.

    Ceremony is a symbol of power: in some societies, ceremony also plays a symbol of power. On some occasions, the implementation and observance of rites can reflect people's social status and power relations.

    Etiquette also has its limitations: although it plays an important role, it also has its limitations. In some cases, the provisions of the ceremony may not meet the actual needs, or may not meet the wishes and rights of individuals. In this case, people need to weigh and adjust according to the actual situation.

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  • 20班张畅 12-14

        I don’t think we could draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity from his opinion about Li.

        As Rousseau said, freedom without limits is not really freedom. Confucius’ Li is of the same principle.

        Let’s look at the reason why Confucius brought Li. Confucius was born at the end of the Spring and Autumn period, after the fall of the aristocracy in Song. At that time, rites collapse and music are bad, the king is not king, the minister is not minister, the father is not the father, the son is not the son of things sometimes appear. Confucius was deeply grieved, and made profound reflections on the root causes and solutions of social unrest.

        He believes that the root cause of social unrest lies in the blandness and the vogue of politeness, and he advocates the rectification of the name, so that the king and the minister can keep their own points, and then inherit and restore the Zhou rites of the three generations on the basis of profit and loss, in order to fundamentally solve the problem of social unrest.

        From the above, it can be seen that Confucius proposed Li  for the stability and harmony of the whole society. If everyone follows the Li, the society will have less wars and crimes, and everyone in the whole society will benefit. Therefore, what Li provide for people is a stable and peaceful living environment , which is more conducive for people to develop themselves and realize their personal pursuits. So Li doesn’t go against with humanity.

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  • 3班刘晓宇 12-15

    No. Confucianism has certain limitations, and self-denial is opposite to man's natural emotions to some extent, requiring people to restrain their emotions and desires to achieve the requirements of "rites". Confucius advocated that Li was essential in promoting social harmony and respect for others, but also emphasized the dispensibility of compassion, empathy and individual expression. In fact, he stated that a person must first develop oneself before being able to properly engage with society and Li. In addition, Confucianism believed 3 levels of benevolence: family-based love, society-based love and cosmic love, and the love within these 3 systems are interrelated and have a common philosophical basis, that is zhongyong in Confucius' ides, as the embodiment of humanity.

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  • 二班张珂银 12-17

    We cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity only because Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, and thus seem to conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit. The reasons are as follows.

    First of all, in Kant’s conception of freedom, it is not doing whatever you want, but to act autonomously and act according to a law that you give yourself. The most important aspect of necessity that man has to grasp comes from society and social relations. Human freedom is conditioned by social relations. In order to realize the satisfaction of their own needs and to obtain greater freedom, human beings must not only be bound by natural norms, but must also consciously be bound by social etiquette norms.The observance of etiquette and human freedom are not contradictory, but dialectically unified.

    Secondly, the closed and scattered agricultural economy in ancient China was formed by special geographical conditions, which belonged to a land country, and most of the agricultural activities were based on the family, so it was relatively conservative and cohesive. This is naturally different from the adventurous thinking of the West. In addition, the political system of ancient China was relatively stable. With the characteristics of the ancient Chinese economic and political structure, ritual is a necessary condition for maintaining social stability and economic development.

    Thirdly, gods in different cultures are originated from the same divine source. In that cases, religious movements began to demand the worship of a single God. They regard monotheism as a step toward progress. Plato believed that people's feelings can change at any time, and only abstract reason can escape the uncertainty of our thoughts and have eternal significance. This philosophical tendency leads the individual to transcend the sensory experience and seek a higher level of truth.

    In terms of political thought, economic theory, and educational thought, Confucius emphasized the conscience and foundation of human inner emotions and combined them with benevolence. In conclusion, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

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  • 冉明月 12-17

    Bertrand Russell's view on Confucius and rituals is a complex and multifaceted one, and it is not possible to draw a simple conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.
    Russell's perspective on Confucianism and rituals is influenced by his own philosophical and cultural background, and his understanding of Confucianism may not fully represent the complexity and depth of the Confucian tradition.
    Confucianism is a complex and diverse set of beliefs and practices that have been evolving over thousands of years. It emphasizes the importance of morality, education, governance, and interpersonal relations, among other things. Rituals, which are an integral part of Confucianism, serve to maintain social order, express respect, and promote harmonious relationships. While Confucianism does place some emphasis on formalized behavior and hierarchy, it also values human emotions and individual freedom. The Confucian tradition promotes the harmonious development of personal and social life, which includes respecting human emotions and fostering personal growth.
    Bertrand Russell's viewpoint may not fully capture the depth and complexity of Confucianism. Therefore, it is not appropriate to simply attribute inhumanity to Confucius' thoughts based on Russell's perspective alone.

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  • 冉明月 12-17

    Bertrand Russell's view on Confucius and rituals is a complex and multifaceted one, and it is not possible to draw a simple conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.
    Russell's perspective on Confucianism and rituals is influenced by his own philosophical and cultural background, and his understanding of Confucianism may not fully represent the complexity and depth of the Confucian tradition.
    Confucianism is a complex and diverse set of beliefs and practices that have been evolving over thousands of years. It emphasizes the importance of morality, education, governance, and interpersonal relations, among other things. Rituals, which are an integral part of Confucianism, serve to maintain social order, express respect, and promote harmonious relationships. While Confucianism does place some emphasis on formalized behavior and hierarchy, it also values human emotions and individual freedom. The Confucian tradition promotes the harmonious development of personal and social life, which includes respecting human emotions and fostering personal growth.
    Bertrand Russell's viewpoint may not fully capture the depth and complexity of Confucianism. Therefore, it is not appropriate to simply attribute inhumanity to Confucius' thoughts based on Russell's perspective alone.

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  • 甄颖颖 12-18

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

     

    Kant's idea of justice is based on the concept of freedom, which he defines as the ability to act according to one's own will, without external coercion or interference. In this sense, freedom is the foundation of justice, as it allows individuals to make their own choices and be responsible for their actions.

     

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

     

    Social Order and Stability: Rituals provided a framework for maintaining social order and harmony within the community. 

     

    Legitimizing Authority: Rituals were used to legitimize the authority of rulers and government officials.

     

    Moral and Ethical Guidance: Rituals were deeply intertwined with Confucian ethics, emphasizing virtues such as filial piety, respect for elders, and social responsibility.

     

    Economic Exchange: Rituals also played a role in economic transactions and trade. 

     

    3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

     

    The terms "maritime countries" and "continental countries" are often used to categorize nations based on their geographical characteristics and their relationship with bodies of water.

     

    Maritime Countries: Maritime countries are those that have a significant coastline and rely on the sea for trade, transportation, and often defense. These nations typically have a strong maritime tradition and may have a large portion of their population living in coastal areas. Maritime countries often have a strong emphasis on naval power, fishing, and maritime trade. Examples of maritime countries include Japan, the United Kingdom, Indonesia, and Norway.

     

    Continental Countries: Continental countries, on the other hand, are those that are geographically dominated by landmasses and have limited access to the sea. These nations often have a greater emphasis on land-based trade and transportation, and their economies and cultures may be more influenced by their immediate neighbors rather than by maritime influences. Examples of continental countries include Russia, China, Brazil, and Germany.

     

    4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

     

    the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture provided the intellectual, cultural, and religious context that gave rise to metaphysical inquiry and the development of monotheistic beliefs, laying the foundation for the evolution of Western philosophical and theological thought.

     

    5.Can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity (as suggested by Bertrand Russel on page 54)?  

     

    No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity as suggested by Bertrand Russel based solely on the belief that Li or rituals conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit. While it is true that Confucius emphasized the importance of Li and social structure, this was not at the expense of humanity or free will.

     

    Confucius believed that Li was important in promoting social harmony and respect for others, but also emphasized the importance of compassion, empathy, and individual expression. In fact, he stated that one must first develop oneself before being able to properly engage with society and Li.

     

    Furthermore, Russell’s assessment of Confucianism as inhuman can be considered narrow and limited. Confucian thought and philosophy have evolved over time, and there is no singular, monolithic interpretation of Confucianism.

     

    Overall, it is important to approach Confucianism and its concepts of Li and humanity with an open mind and nuanced understanding, rather than making sweeping conclusions based on limited perspectives.

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  • 马欣宇 12-18

    What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    Freedom is to act according to specific laws, not unlimited freedom, social behavior and individual behavior do not conflict with the spirit of freedom; instead, free action must be orderly in the social organization.

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and structure need "Ritual"

    Etiquette" played an important role in the economic and political activities in ancient China. He restricted people's free activities and social activities, and established good social relations, which was an important factor affecting the ancient social relations.

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  • 11班王紫微 12-18

    No, drawing a conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity is oversimplified and misinterpreted. After thinking the in-depth understanding of Confucius's thought, we can find that rituals like benevolence, virtue, loyalty and filial piety advanced by Confucius play an important role in keeping the sicial order and promoting individual behavior, which is in practice in line with humanity.  By regulating behavior, ritual encourages peopel to priorities society interest, contributing to social harmony, aiding in stablizing governance and social relations. So, we need rituals and our ancienty agricultural society also needs it, based on the thinking of our practical situations. In short, Confucius's thought is a complex and profound system that includes elements of maintaining social order, moral norms and elements of respecting human emotional and spiritual freedom, which also plays a vital role in shaping our national character and being a part of our cultural genes. So, it's ridiculous and unreasonalble to say that rituals advenced by Confucius are in line with inhumanity.

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  • 何炳蓉 12-19

     What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

     

    "Freedom" in Kant's justice philosophy refers to the state where individuals exercise their rights and pursue goals without external interference. Kant argues that freedom is an inherent right of humanity, but it should be constrained by moral principles to ensure harmony between individual and collective freedoms.

     

     

     

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

     

    In traditional Chinese society, "Ritual" is not just a ceremony but a moral guideline sustaining social order. By regulating behavior, "Ritual" encourages individuals to prioritize societal interests, contributing to social harmony. Its role in the economic and political structure lies in establishing a set of relatively fixed social norms and moral standards, aiding in stabilizing governance and societal relations.

     

     

     

     3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

     

    The distinction between maritime and continental countries is based on geographical and economic factors. Maritime countries, surrounded by seas, often have economies influenced by maritime activities like trade, fishing, and navigation, while continental countries, located inland, focus more on agriculture.

     

    4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

     

    The Hellenistic tradition in Western culture spurred contemplation beyond the material world, fostering the development of metaphysics. This philosophical trend guided individuals beyond sensory experiences to seek higher truths. Simultaneously, the religious beliefs in the Hellenistic tradition laid the foundation for monotheism, concentrating faith in a single deity and emphasizing the universe's order and unity.

     

     

     

    No, it would be an oversimplification and a misinterpretation to conclude that Confucius is in line with inhumanity solely based on the criticism of Li or rituals. Confucianism, as propagated by Confucius, is a comprehensive philosophical and ethical system that goes beyond rituals. While rituals play a role in structuring social and personal behaviors, the core of Confucianism emphasizes ethical virtues, moral cultivation, and the development of benevolence (ren) and righteousness (yi).Bertrand Russell's suggestion of inhumanity might stem from a limited view of Confucianism or a specific interpretation of rituals. Confucius advocated for the harmonious coexistence of individuals within a society, emphasizing empathy, compassion, and the well-being of others. His teachings aimed at creating a moral and just society, and not at suppressing human emotional instincts or free spirit.In essence, Confucianism encourages a balanced approach that incorporates both ethical principles and humanistic values, aiming for a harmonious and virtuous society.

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  • 陈星佑 12-19

    Confucius believed that rituals (li) were important for maintaining social order and harmony. He saw them as a way to regulate and structure social and personal behaviors, ensuring that people acted in accordance with their roles and responsibilities in society. However, Confucius did not believe that rituals should conflict with human emotional instinct or free spirit. In fact, he saw the cultivation of emotions and the development of a virtuous character as essential to the practice of rituals.

    Bertrand Russell's suggestion that Confucius was in line with inhumanity is a misinterpretation of Confucius's views on rituals. Confucius believed that rituals should be practiced with sincerity and respect for others, and that they should promote the well-being of society as a whole. He saw them as a means to cultivate human virtues, rather than as a form of oppression or inhumanity.

    Therefore, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity based on his views on rituals. Instead, we should understand Confucius's teachings on rituals as a way to promote social harmony and personal development through the cultivation of virtues and respect for others.

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  • 14班周子傲 12-19

    Confucius believed that rituals (li) were important for maintaining social order and harmony. He saw them as a way to regulate and structure social and personal behaviors, ensuring that people acted in accordance with their roles and responsibilities in society. However, Confucius did not believe that rituals should conflict with human emotional instinct or free spirit. In fact, he saw the cultivation of emotions and the development of a virtuous character as essential to the practice of rituals.

    Bertrand Russell's suggestion that Confucius was in line with inhumanity is a misinterpretation of Confucius's views on rituals. Confucius believed that rituals should be practiced with sincerity and respect for others, and that they should promote the well-being of society as a whole. He saw them as a means to cultivate human virtues, rather than as a form of oppression or inhumanity.

    Therefore, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity based on his views on rituals. Instead, we should understand Confucius's teachings on rituals as a way to promote social harmony and personal development through the cultivation of virtues and respect for others.

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  • 10班杨文星 12-19

    The word "rites" is the core of Confucianism, and even the foundation of Confucianism. Rites are originally a kind of social system and norm. We often say "etiquette norms", which is the connotation of "rites" in the Zhou Dynasty. In Confucianism, the character "Li" has three attributes. Etiquette is not only a moral concept with moral principles, but also a social system and norm, which is the highest principle of good social order. Finally, rites are abstracted into a kind of apriori or transcendental laws and principles: "heavenly principles." And there is an invariable essence of rites, that is "order". If people follow "rites", they will have a good interpersonal relationship. Countries and countries follow the "rites", then the world will show harmony and beauty. In a word, since Confucian thought put forward "rites", it contains a kind of pursuit for order. 

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  • 张芮菡 12-19

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    The core concept of Kant's moral philosophy is freedom. In Kant's view, people not only belong to the "feeling" or "phenomenal" world, but also belong to the "conceptual" or "ontology" world. As part of the world of empirical phenomena, man is determined and unfree, and his will and behavior are subject to the causal law of the natural world. As part of the rational ontology world, man is a free and moral driving force. He is free and self-determined to choose between good and evil. Kant believes that the general principles of law and morality cannot be based on empirical human nature, but must be incorporated into the "conceptual" or "ontological" world, and built on a priori "should" world based on rational commands.

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    Compared with the law, ritual has three strengths and advantages, which can prevent trouble, guide people to kindness, and maintain the harmony of social order. Governing the world with ritual can establish a good social order, make people separate, fulfill their respective responsibilities, and avoid social chaos and contradictions.

    The defect of ritual is that when people do not abide by the norms of etiquette, they cannot take coercive measures to punish them. Therefore, in the long-term historical evolution, the combination of ritual and law has formed a governance method that combines ritual and law.

    In a word, governing the world with courtesy is one of the important ways of social governance in ancient China, which is rooted in Confucianism. The advantage of ritual is that it can establish a good social order and avoid social chaos and contradictions. However, the defect of ritual is that it cannot force people to abide by ritual norms. Therefore, in the long-term historical evolution, the combination of ritual and law has formed a governance method that combines ritual and law.

    3.Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The Greeks lived ina maritime country and maintained their prosperity thought commerce.

    They were primarily merchants. And what merchants have to deal with first are the abstract numbers used in their commercial accounts, and only then with concrete things that may have immediately apprehended through these numbers.Such numbers are what Northrop called concepts by postulation. Hence Greek philosopher s likewise took the concept by postulation as their starting point.They developed mathematics and mathematical reasoning. That is why they had epistemological problem and why their language was so articulate. They are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.

    Continental Countries

    This is the view of one who admire the natural and condemns the artificial. The way of life of the farmers is to follow nature. They admire nature and condemn the artificial, and in their primitivity and innocent, they are easily made content.

    4. Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

    The ancient Greeks strongly focused on political democracy and freedom of thought, firmly believed in human values and dignity, and did not succumb to any secular or religious authority. With the attitude of rationalism and secularism and adhering to the spirit of free exploration, positive thinking and continuous innovation, they have brought free, rational and democratic humanistic ideas, optimistic and enterprising attitude towards life and healthy and simple aesthetic concepts to the Western world.

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  • 12班曾静 12-20

    We can’t say Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

    First, as a continental country, China developed a unique economic form in ancient times known as "small-scale peasant economy." In this economic model, agricultural production often took place at the family level, with farming activities conducted among relatively independent small peasant households. People desired harmony and stability, placing importance on family and neighborhood relationships. The emergence of "Li" perfectly met these needs, as it emphasized social order and norms, involved regulations on interpersonal relationships, and included agricultural rituals and ceremonial rites. Therefore, I believe that in that historical context, society needed "li" to restrain and regulate social behavior, which was a developmental adaptation rather than inhumane.

    Second, no philosophical or religious ideology in the world allows individuals to achieve absolute freedom without some degree of self-restriction. If everyone were to seek unrestricted freedom, it would inevitably lead to the infringement of others' freedom. Like a kite without strings, a society without constraints tends to fall into chaos. Therefore, we should not demand absolute freedom without limitations.

    Third, following Kant's perspective on freedom, that is, "the motive of duty is the supreme principle of morality," meaning one should do the right thing for the right reasons. Clearly, the motivation behind the emergence of "Li" in Confucianism is commendable, and it has achieved certain positive effects. Therefore, from this perspective, adhering to "li" can be considered a form of freedom.

    All in all, we can't simple infer that Confucius means inhumanity. Instead, it let the Chinese ancient society more peaceful,  then people can have more opportunities to express themselves.

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  • 21班孙贝莹 12-20

    No, we cannot say that Confucius is in line with inhumanity as suggested by Russel.

    It is true that Confucius's idea of Li was designed to regulate human behavior, but this does not mean that it conflicts with human emotional instinct and free spirit.

    If the idea of Li is inhumane, why does traditional Chinese society advocate the it so much? Because Confucius emphasized that human behavior should conform to the norms of etiquette, so as to achieve a harmonious social order. At the same time, he emphasized the importance of human emotions and free will.

    According to Kant ,the real freedom means the free will of a person to act according to his own nature, without being bound by natural laws in the sense of morality. However,human society establishes the necessary laws of nature in terms of objects, but also limits their freedom as a result. But the humans need to act according to the consistent and universal laws of free will.

    Therefore, we cannot simply say that Confucius's idea of Li is inhuman. Rather, it aims to lead people to better understand and express their emotions and free spirit, so as to achieve a harmonious social order.

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