中国文化导论及经典文本选读
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On the "limitation" of Li

By 张婷 老师 11-16 6319次浏览

Some people believe Li or rituals are about organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors, and thus seem to conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit. Then, can we draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity (as suggested by Bertrand Russel on page 54)?  

Post your answers online.

450 回复

  • 林子愉 11-23

    In my opinion, Confucius is not in line with inhumanity.


    Firstly, for Kant, freedom is the opposite of natural necessity . A person’s will is determined not by the promptings of nature or his hunger or his appetite or his desires. Thus, freedom is not about doing whatever you want, but to act autonomously according to a law that you give yourself.


    Secondly, ritual is a symbol of traditional Chinese culture, which has been deeply rooted in the spiritual world of Chinese people and has been widely recognized. Its status and function are even beyond the law, becoming the supreme existence. Since ancient times, people have not been bound by this ritual, but have standardized their way of life to achieve a more orderly and harmonious life.


    Thirdly, we should take the geographical differences between countries into account. Maritime countries are surrounded by seas, which often own economies influenced by maritime activities like trade, fishing, and navigation, while continental countries, located inland, focus more on agriculture. Of course, the two countries produced different political systems and ideological development directions.


    Lastly, the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture stimulated the thinking beyond the material world and promoted the development of metaphysics. This philosophical trend leads individuals to go beyond sensory experience and seek a higher truth. At the same time, religious beliefs in the Hellenistic tradition laid the foundation for monotheism, focusing on a single god and emphasizing the order and unity of the universe.


    In a nutshell, Confucius is not advocating inhumanity. In view of the cultural differences between the East and the West and the different directions of ideological development, his proposition and whether he has human freedom are two categories and should not be seen as the same.

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  • 8班傅雯婷 11-23

    1.what is freedom?

    Kant divided freedom into three levels: a priori freedom, practical freedom and moral freedom. A priori freedom is the freedom of reason, which is free from external limitations and constraints, or the so-called "freedom to do as one pleases". Practical freedom is the freedom of the will, which can be realized through the guidance of reason. Moral freedom is the freedom of self-discipline, which is not subject to external limitations and restrictions in the moral sphere.

    Kant's definition of freedom. What is meant by freedom in the broad sense is that freedom is the unimpeded transformation of something into that which it is destined to become.

    Freedom in the narrower sense is taken to mean that man has the capacity in the sense of moral practice to be free from the laws of nature, to be free from the instincts of the flesh and to act according to the universal laws of its own consistent free will.

    The theory of freedom in the broader sense both a priori and a priori is the basis for the implementation of freedom in the narrower sense both practical and free.

    2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    In the Confucian system of thought, "rite" is not only a socio-political ideal, but also a series of ethical and moral principles and norms. The core content of traditional Chinese culture accumulated over thousands of years of history is "rites", and ancient Chinese politics is basically based on "rites". "Rites" are inextricably linked with ancient Chinese political concepts, political behavior and political systems.

    In ancient times, the patriarchal system, the feudal system, the kimono system, the title system, the land system, the tribute system, the military system, the criminal law system, the official system, and various other political systems of our ancient society all belonged to the category of "rites". Although the various ritual systems have been improved and changed with the development of the society or the change of dynasties, they are always the same, and "ritual" has always been the theoretical basis and value standard of the various systems of the ancient societies in China for thousands of years, and it has always been the ideal mode of system pursued by the ideology of the feudal kings of our country in successive dynasties. Therefore, it can be said that China's traditional culture and political system is basically a "paradigm" of ritual. 

    There is also a close relationship between the ancient Chinese culture of "ritual" and the legal system. In the ancient Chinese model of state governance, rites and laws were closely integrated together, playing a regulatory and restraining function on the social order. The ritual system played an important role in indoctrination, while the law and punishment played a role in restraining and disciplining social behaviors within the framework of the ritual system. Especially after Emperor Wu of the Han Dynasty "dismissed all schools of thought and revered only the Confucians", successive dynasties basically adopted the Confucian "ritual" culture as the keynote of the complementary political structure of rites and laws. Rituals were used to decorate political benevolence, while laws were used to render political authority, thus promoting the effective functioning of the state apparatus and maintaining the stable and orderly development of society.

    3.A continental country is usually defined as a landlocked country that has no sea area and is surrounded and defended by other countries. A maritime country is one that is surrounded by the sea. A land and sea country is a country that has a predominantly land area and is bordered by the sea.
    The difference between continental and maritime countries lies mainly in the mode of production and cultural differences. Continental countries take agriculture and animal husbandry as the main mode of production, relatively conservative thinking and strong cohesion. Oceanic countries take commercial trade as the main mode of production, more adventurous spirit, and a strong sense of external development.
    In addition, according to some literature, continental countries are also defined as countries with large tracts of land characterized by agriculture and animal husbandry as the main mode of production, while maritime countries have commercial trade as the main mode of production.
    To summarize, the main difference between continental and maritime countries lies in the mode of production and cultural differences. Continental countries are characterized by agriculture and animal husbandry as their main mode of production, relatively conservative thinking and strong cohesion, while maritime countries are characterized by commercial trade as their main mode of production, more adventurous spirit and a strong sense of external development.

    4.Greek philosophy had its origins in the search for the "universality of the world" (primordial), which gave rise to the Ionian and South Italian philosophical traditions, respectively. The former, which includes the Miletusian and Heraclitean philosophies, is characterized by the intuitive recognition, through observational experience, that the infinity of nature is united in some form of matter. The South Italian tradition, on the other hand, focused on metaphysical discernment, with the Pythagorean school being the earliest to attempt to account for the nature of the world in terms of abstract forms, such as number and spatial form, and the Aelian school using contemplative argumentation to establish the principles of nature. The later natural philosophy (elementalism, seed theory and atomism) synthesized and deepened the two philosophical traditions, asserting that the intermittent, movable elementary particles of matter were the origin of the universe, and systematically formulating the doctrine of the generation and evolution of the universe. At the end of the 4th century B.C., Greek philosophy entered Athens, and after the Wise Men rejected all objective principles, Socrates proposed a philosophical metaphysics of finding "universal definitions" behind specific existences; his disciple Plato developed the idea of a universal origin of all things into an elaborate system of Ideal Theory on the basis of which he extended the Aristotle synthesized almost all the contents of the previous natural philosophy and metaphysics, and established a system of philosophical categories centering on the doctrine of entities, as well as the "Four Causes" and "Potentiality and Fulfillment" theories, which formed a systematic and profound theory. He established a system of existential philosophical categories centered on the doctrine of entities, as well as the "Four Causes" and "Potential and Realization", forming a systematic and profound natural philosophy.

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  • 2021级6班王霞 11-23

    No, I don't agree with the conclusion that Confucious is in line with inhumanity.

    "Freedom", according to Kant, means that individuals can exercise their rights without the external interference, but the use of it should be constrained by  the moral principles.

    "Li" has multiple meanings, etiquette, hierarchy, sincerity and appropriateness. However, Russell's understanding of "Li" is narrow and limited. He made a rash conclusion that Confucious only focuses on rituals, ignoring people's emotions and spirits, based on a single story.  Actually, apart from the ceremony, the rituals, "Li", proposed by Confucious, also considers the spiritual side of individuals, its third meaning "sincerity".  It advocates the unification of the behavior and the heart.  So, Confucious is in line with humanity.

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  • 肖幼楠 11-23

    Self-discipline is sometimes a form of prudence. Everything should start with yourself, be self-disciplined, restrict yourself, always carry out self-restraint and self-management, and review yourself harshly with your own eyes. Do a man in advance, right people first right yourself. Restraining yourself does not mean going against people's wishes, but rather making yourself better on the basis of maintaining your personality. This practice not only improves the ability of self, but also plays a role in social harmony and interpersonal harmony. The harmonious interpersonal relationship can in turn act on itself and promote the development of individuals. Therefore, self-discipline and observance of etiquette are of great benefit to oneself, to others, and to society. Confucius' etiquette thought is not inhuman.

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  • 10班向园园 11-23

    We can not draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

    Firstly, Kant believes that freedom is an essentially unrestricted right and an essential attribute of human beings. He defined freedom as a kind of "autonomy," the ability to have free will. Autonomy is the basis for human beings to have the ability to act, and it is the inner strength that is not affected by external factors.


    Secondly, the politics of ancient China is based on "Li". "Li" is closely related to ancient Chinese political ideas, political behaviors and political systems. "Li" is not only a social and political ideal, but also a moral norm. It maintains social stability and development by guiding, restricting and standardizing people's thought and behavior. This suited the needs of China's supreme rulers at the time.


    Thirdly, "Li" in Confucius' thought is a norm and code of conduct that must be followed between people. It can make people respect each other, keep faith, unite and cooperate, and maintain social harmony and stability. "Li" emphasizes the respect, modesty, friendliness and mutual help between individuals, which is the embodiment of a moral and behavioral code. Confucius believed that the purpose of "Li" is to cultivate people's noble character and moral quality, so that people can become a perfect personality with benevolence, integrity and respectful attitude. This does not conflict with people's emotional instincts and free spirit. "Li" do not limit people's autonomy, but allow people's behavior and thought to develop more freely in a more standardized way. Therefore, Confucius is not in line with inhumanity, but actually conforms to humanity.

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  • 2班缪加文 11-23

    No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. 

    China social system is the family state, whose organization is not automatic,causing the need for riturals.

    and freedom is not about doing what you want and getting what you want. On the contrary, freedom is the opposite of necessity. Freedom is predicated on the foundation of order and rules. Without these constraints, individuals might engage in unrestrained actions, leading to societal chaos and jeopardizing not only the freedom of individuals but the overall well-being of the world. Hence, the structure of society takes precedence over the freedom of individuals. A harmonious and stable society is achievable only within the framework of established rules, exemplifying the principles of Li. It is through adherence to these rules that we can attain genuine freedom and uphold the essence of humanity."

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  • 5班杨美林 11-23

    We can’t draw the conclusion that Confucious is in line with inhumanity. Although ritual has the convention and is a tool for the rulers to stabilize the social order, it does not violet the moral code. It respects the universal personality and human rational capacity. It is the standard of behavior university tested and recognized by generation after generation.

    Firstly, from Kant’s definition of freedom, to act freely is to act autonomously or to act according to a law that I give myself. It is not generally thought as simply consisting in doing what we want or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want. Our acts must resist from our inclinations or desires and only obey the natural rational reason. So, everyone has his special dignity and respect. This decides the difference between human and animals. Human can choose to act freely under own law.

    However, freedom of the individual cannot be at the expense of the freedom of others. Kant's freedom is a kind of self-discipline under moral norms. It requires mutual respect and self-denial among people. Li is the norm that regulates social behavior and respects universal personality. So, Confucious is not in line with inhumanity.

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  • 田晓南 11-23

    Based on the difference between Confucius and Humanism, I do not think that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

    Confucianism differs significantly from humanism is that Confucianism is a collectivist philosophy while humanism is an individualist philosophy. Humanists asserted the dignity of normal earthly activities. The preciousness and dignity of the individual person is a central humanist value. Individuals should be encouraged to realize their own creative talents and desires. One of Confucianism’s main tenet is obedience to authority while humanism is significantly marked by a distrust toward authority. “Li”, the “proper way” or “propriety”, includes a set of rules for interaction with others and the role system. Control of emotions, restraint, obedience to authority, conforming and “face” are highly valued and important. Confucius, based on reason and humanity, stressed the importance of benevolence, respect for others, and looked pragmatically at individual situations rather than blindly following traditional rules.

    Humanism is the -ism - an expansion doctrine, at that time Confucius principles is not -ism, it is aimed at self-changes, not to convert an another to the "confucianism". But humanism as the faith of the traders need to expansion of their goods for new adepts - humanists. They are not the same. In other words, you must not to be confucianist to be a good or successful man, but if you disagree with humanists principles you’ll be a butcher, or something.

     

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  • 于冰 11-23

    1.What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    Kant holds that freedom consists in acting according to the law given by individuals not by the external or physical laws of nature. Freedom can only be gained when we act autonomously, on the laws given by ourselves. Thus we do something for its own sake as an end itself. Take the charity programme for example. If you give out your hand to people in need with sincere kindness, then you good motive is just the end. On the contrary, some people utilize the charity as a gimmick to grab public eyeballs, those needy people are used as means to achieve your end.

    That means, if we simply act on inclination or pursue pleasure, we can’t have the true freedom. In that way, we act as means to the realization of ends given outside us. This reminds me of a trendy word the pitfall of consumerism. In Kant’s context, consumers who are blindly driven by advertisements to pursue the pleasure are just the means of merchants to gain the lucrative money. Therefore, these people actually lost their freedom

    2.Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    From the perspective of geographical factors, China is no doubt a continental country, where people could simply make a living on the produce of their land, lacking the desire to exchange commodity, resulting in a slow growth of commerce. And rulers adhere to the principal of containing commerce and developing agriculture in order to sustain his governance. All adds up to the rituals to maintain a stable, consistent, hierarchical society. Therefore, we need ritual to keep the giant country operating.

    3.Why did the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture give rise to metaphysics and monotheism?

    The ancient Greeks strongly focused on political democracy and freedom of thought, firmly believed in human values and dignity, and did not succumb to any secular or religious authority. With the attitude of rationalism and secularism and adhering to the spirit of free exploration, positive thinking and continuous innovation, they have brought free, rational and democratic humanistic ideas, giving rise to metaphysics.

    Before monotheism, we must talk about polytheism. It often corresponds to secular power based on tribal alliance and city-state alliance. This power system is relatively loose, and there are characteristics of replacement and mutual checks and balances. The most typical examples are Viking nations and Greek city-states in Northern Europe, and the corresponding polytheism is Norse mythology and Greek mythology respectively.

    After Rome replaced Greece, this kind of loose power system continued. Different forces could check and balance each other and take over at any time. When there was a balance of power, they would sit down and negotiate, and when one side gained an absolute advantage, they would directly fight each other with swords. With the gradual improvement of the Roman administrative system and the concentration of secular power, the secular power system supporting polytheism gradually began to disintegrate. The Roman Emperor represented by Constantine I was no longer satisfied with the dispersion of power and the uncertainty of inheritance, so he replaced the polytheistic belief of the ancient Roman religion with improved Christianity under the cover of monotheistic Judaism.

    4.We cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. On the contrary, he lay emphasis on limited freedom is true freedom which is in keeping with Kant’s opinions. Only within a given ritual set by morality or laws can people act autonomously.

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  • 彭俊豪 11-23

    I do not think so.

    Confucius's philosophy, centered on the concept of Li or rituals, indeed emphasizes structured social conduct and personal behavior. This aspect often raises the question of whether such emphasis clashes with human emotions and individual freedom. However, a deeper exploration of Confucius's teachings reveals a more nuanced perspective.

    Confucius advocated for a harmonious society through the cultivation of moral virtues and ethical behavior. While emphasizing the importance of rituals in shaping societal norms and individual conduct, his teachings weren't intended to suppress human emotions or restrict personal freedom. Instead, they aimed to provide a framework within which emotions and personal freedom could coexist harmoniously.

    The rituals and social structures promoted by Confucius were intended to serve as a guide for individuals to navigate their interactions within society while upholding moral values such as respect, kindness, and empathy. Rather than stifling emotions, these rituals were meant to channel and express them in a manner that promotes social harmony and ethical conduct.

    Confucius stressed the significance of personal development and self-cultivation, encouraging individuals to refine their characters and embrace virtuous behavior. His teachings underscored the importance of balancing one's emotions and instincts with ethical considerations for the greater good of society.

    In essence, Confucius's emphasis on rituals and social structures aimed to create a moral and harmonious society by providing a framework for ethical behavior, rather than advocating for inhumanity or suppressing individual emotions and free spirit. His teachings sought to integrate personal emotions and societal harmony within a moral framework, fostering a balanced and virtuous way of life.

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  • 郭鑫 11-23

    We cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. 

    As one of the core values of Confucianism, ritual plays an important role in the Confucian ideological system and social practice. The "rites" originated from the rites of Zhou. Confucius' thoughts on "rites" were not limited to the rites of Zhou. He downplayed the religious color of rites as a God-honoring ceremony, and transformed rites into the civilized cultivation and behavior norms of human beings. Etiquette is the value criterion contained in the code of conduct in communication, and it is also the interpretation of etiquette and etiquette. In the Confucian ideological system, "ritual" is not only a social and political ideal, but also a series of ethical principles and norms

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  • 吕晓霖 11-24

    No,we can’t simplely draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity only from this aspect.

    Above all,human emotional instinct and free spirit refers to “Ren”in Confucius, organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors refers to “Li” in Confucius.

    I think from the ideological point of view, these two are not contradictory.

    In Confucius' ideological system, "Ren" and "Li" are closely related to the whole, "Ren" is the internal basis of "Li", "LI" is the external form of expression, and acting according to rites is the expression of "Ren". These two aspects complement each other. "Ren" is the most sacred and beautiful characteristic of human society, and "Li" is the appropriate way that people can live in harmony according to rites. Only in this way can we have the heart of awe and step by step approach "Ren", so that the two can achieve a harmonious and perfect unity.

    From the perspective of social order, propriety and freedom are integrated together. Individual freedom is another core liberal value. The desire for freedom is the nature of all animals, and man's desire for freedom stems from man's nature. Freedom is a basic human need, and this provides a legitimate justification for the freedom of human society, just as the desire to live a long life provides a legitimate justification for the right to life. However, humans are social animals, and social groups are a prerequisite for their survival. However, in order to establish social order, it is necessary to establish, to some extent at the cost of freedom, norms that facilitate the management of individual behavior, in this case "Li."

    Etiquette is the foundation of civilization, and in promoting the progress of human life, the social importance of etiquette exceeds the principle of freedom. Human beings value the meaning of life, so the main difference between human beings and animals is not the degree to which they seek freedom, but that they seek freedom for meaningful ends. Rites help to guide the civilization of human behavior and thus increase the meaning of human life.

    Therefore, the rule of etiquette advocated by Confucius is not inhumane, but at that time did not take into account the interests of the people at the lowest level, but in the era of promoting equality for all, it is almost impeccable.

     

     

     

     

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  • zhangzhao 11-24

    No, we cannot jump to the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

    Firstly, organizing and structuring social and personal behaviors doesn't mean that one is lossing his free spirit, on the contrary, the Li and rituals that organizing social and personal behaviors would help people to peotect his own rights. For example, if everyone lives a life totally based on their own ideas, our bad nature might cause us to do things violate other people's normal life. Vice versa, if others do things benefit only for themselves, which might also trobled our life.

    Secondly, even Confucius calls on people to follow the Li and rituals, it doesn't mean that we have to eliminate our true feelings and free spirit. Confucius believed that by adhering to Li, individuals could create a harmonious society and develop their moral character.Therefore, it incorrect to view Confucius as being aligned with inhumanity merely based on the perceived conflict between Li and human emotions or free spirit.

     

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  • 7班李思彬 11-24

    Kant held that every rational being had both an innate right to freedom and a duty to enter into a civil condition governed by a social contract in order to realize and preserve that freedom. Kant affirmed freedom as the fundamental right of rational agents, we must always keep in mind that he meant a “freedom” that is consistent with his Categorical Imperative, i.e., a right to freedom that can be attributed equally to every individual, a freedom that can be exercised by every person simultaneously without generating conflict. This is why force used to protect our right to freedom is morally justifiable, whereas force used to violate our right to freedom amounts to nothing more than mere “violence.” Any alleged “right” to restrict the legitimate freedom of others would inject an ineradicable conflict into rights theory and is ruled out of court for that reason alone. To forbid, by legal means, the “freedom” to violate rights is therefore “consistent with freedom according to universal laws [of justice].”

    Everyone pursues desire according to their instinctive nature. If there are no certain rules to limit it, it will lead to disputes, and then there will be two results. This can only be an endless struggle, that is, that is, what Xun Zi said. "Fighting is chaos"; one is that "things cannot be provided", and there are so many things provided by nature. If there are more monks and less porridge, everyone wants to get it without effort, and there is bound to compete. Because "potentiality cannot be tolerated, and things cannot be subsidized", in this process, it is all kinds of competition, thieves, lewdness, chaos and violence. The final result is "poor", which refers to both the poverty of materials and the poverty of people. Everyone's desires cannot be satisfied, and everyone can't survive safely. 

    Ritual to resolve this contradiction. The contradictions of competition continue to arise, and human beings are bound to be in a state of poverty. If this continues in the long run, it will not only benefit anyone, but also make people face the danger of extinction. In this case, a mechanism to regulate the relationship between people is bound to emerge, which is ritual. The role of ritual is to regulate the relationship of desire between people so that the materials provided by nature can have a reasonable distribution, and finally achieve the goals of "uniting in the community", "in line with literature and theory" and "returning to governance".The so-called restrain human desire is only to prevent some people's desire from excessive expansion and chaos, not the general Taoist so-called clear-mindedness and the "extermination" of later scholars. The ultimate purpose of ritual , is to nourish the desire to satisfy everyone's legitimate desires to the maximum extent. Therefore, the ritual is definitely not in line with humanity but in harmony with humanity.

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  • 马灿 11-24

    I don't think so. Li refers to the ritual law. In ancient times, the upper and lower levels were required to be obvious and the upper and lower levels were ordered, so Li was used to regulate people's behavior. Although Confucius also advocated the restoration of Zhou rites and the restoration of self-respect, this did not affect Confucius's attention to the self-development of people. First of all, from the aspect of education, he believes that education should be popularized, the practice of teaching students according to their aptitude, and the right way to educate students; Moreover, Confucius is famous for the idea of "benevolence", benevolence loves people, and Confucius is kind to people. Therefore, although Confucius advocated the restoration of self-denial in governing the country, in order to maintain the rule of the feudal state, Confucius still respected the idea of "benevolence" and stressed the importance of love, so this is not contradictory.

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  • 夏晓霜 11-24

    1.  "Feedom" in Kant's philosophy of justice refers to the state in which individuals exercise their rights and pursue their goals without external interference. Kant thought that freedom is an inherent human right, but that it should be governed by moral principles to ensure harmony between individual and collective freedom. What's more, Do things of our own volition and regulate your behavior according to your own will.

     2. Intraditional Chinese society, "li" emphasizes the social value of individuals, believing that they should put the country and society first in order to promote social harmony. Its role in economic and political structures is to establish a relatively fixed set of social norms and moral standards that stabilize governance and social relations.

    3. The distinction between oceanic and continental countries is based on geographical and economic factors. The economy of maritime countries surrounded by the sea is often influenced by maritime activities such as trade, fishing and navigation, and pays more attention to contracts and exchanges. The landlocked mainland countries are more focused on agriculture and their own development, and are more conservative and traditional.

    4. The Hellenistic tradition in Western culture spurred contemplation beyond the material world, fostering the development of metaphysics. This philosophical trend guided individuals beyond sensory experiences to seek higher truths. Simultaneously, the religious beliefs in the Hellenistic tradition laid the foundation for monotheism, concentrating faith in a single deity and emphasizing the universe's order and unity.

    5. No, we can't draw the conclusion. Confucianism, transmitted by Confucius, is a comprehensive philosophical and ethical system that transcends ritual. The core of Confucianism is the development of moral virtues, moral cultivation, benevolence and justice. Confucius advocated the harmonious coexistence of individuals in society, emphasizing empathy, compassion, and the well-being of others. His teachings were aimed at creating a moral and just society, not at suppressing human emotional instincts or free spirits. In essence, Confucianism encourages a balanced approach that combines ethical principles and humanistic values with the aim of building a harmonious and benign society. Therefore, we cannot think that Confucius' thought is against humanity.

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  • 任恩缘Ryan 11-24

    As far as Russel was concerned, Confucianism was mainly a code of civilized behavior, degenerating at times into an etiquette book. In a word, he should keep calm constantly to restrain his actions. It appears that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. However, it is just a surface of understanding of Li. 

    In traditional Chinese society, "Ritual" is not just a ceremony but a moral guideline sustaining society orders. Under the guidance of Li, society will be of morality and justice, which promotes a balance of the whole society. 

    For example, as Russel said, battles in China are seldom bloody. In such a country, militarism is not the scourge it is with us. This owes much to the stability and unity of society which guided by Confucian ethics.

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  • 15班文馨 11-24

    Freedom/liberty is a concept of political philosophy. Under such conditions, human beings can dominate themselves, act by free will, and be responsible for their own actions. There are different views on the concept of freedom in academics, and different understandings of the relationship between individuals and society. The most basic meaning of freedom is the absence of restrictions and obstacles (binding, control, coercion or coercion), or the absence of restrictions or obstructions. In ancient Chinese, "freedom" means "because of oneself", that is, it is not due to external forces, but by itself. In European characters, "freedom" contains the meaning of "liberation". Only when it is liberated from external sanctions can you make your own decision [1] [2]. The incisive explanation of "freedom" is that there are no external obstacles and you can act according to your own will. According to John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, many thinkers have more than 200 definitions of "freedom". Therefore, Giovanni Sartori said, "Freedom is a chameleon-like language." In a free and broad sense, it is the unconstrained behavior of animals and plants within the scope of the law.

    Confucius's so-called "Li" is not only the etiquette that should be adhered to by monarchs and ministers, fathers and sons, husbands and wife, brothers, teachers and students, etc., but also a kind of mind and attitude that a gentleman should use to distinguish right from wrong through "benevolentness", and deal with everything, without being influenced by the outside world or inner confusion.

    therefore I don't agree with it 

     

     

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  • 罗琪 11-24

    First of all, Kant's idea of justice is rooted in his ethical framework, known as deontological ethics. According to Kant, justice is not based on the consequences of an action but on the moral duty of individuals to act in accordance with universalizable principles.

    And Kant argued that justice requires treating individuals as ends in themselves, rather than as means to an end. This means that people should be treated with respect and dignity, and their rights and autonomy should be protected. Kant's concept of justice is closely related to his notion of the categorical imperative, which states that individuals should act only in ways that they could rationally will to be a universal law.

    Confucianism, as an ethical and philosophical system, emphasizes the cultivation of virtues, respect for authority, and social harmony. While it does emphasize structure and ritual, it does not necessarily conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit. Confucianism seeks to guide individuals towards harmonious relationships and a balanced society. And Bertrand Russell, a prominent philosopher, criticized Confucianism for what he perceived as its emphasis on hierarchy and suppression of individual freedom. However, it is not accurate to conclude that Confucius himself advocated for inhumanity. Confucius prioritized benevolence, righteousness, and the pursuit of virtue in one's interactions with others. His teachings aimed to promote beneficial conduct and social order, rather than advocating for inhumanity.

    So I think It is important to approach philosophical discussions with an open mind, considering multiple perspectives and interpretations. Different philosophers may have diverse opinions on Confucianism and its compatibility with human nature and freedom.

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  • 15班文馨 11-24

    Freedom/liberty is a concept of political philosophy. Under such conditions, human beings can dominate themselves, act by free will, and be responsible for their own actions. There are different views on the concept of freedom in academics, and different understandings of the relationship between individuals and society. The most basic meaning of freedom is the absence of restrictions and obstacles (binding, control, coercion or coercion), or the absence of restrictions or obstructions. In ancient Chinese, "freedom" means "because of oneself", that is, it is not due to external forces, but by itself. In European characters, "freedom" contains the meaning of "liberation". Only when it is liberated from external sanctions can you make your own decision [1] [2]. The incisive explanation of "freedom" is that there are no external obstacles and you can act according to your own will. According to John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, many thinkers have more than 200 definitions of "freedom". Therefore, Giovanni Sartori said, "Freedom is a chameleon-like language." In a free and broad sense, it is the unconstrained behavior of animals and plants within the scope of the law.

    Confucius's so-called "courtesy" is not only the etiquette that should be adhered to by monarchs and ministers, fathers and sons, husbands and wife, brothers, teachers and students, etc., but also a kind of mind and attitude that a gentleman should use to distinguish right from wrong through "benevolentness", and deal with everything, without being influenced by the outside world or inner confusion.

    therefore i don't agree it 

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  • 陈虹伶 11-24

    No, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

    Firstly,we should remove people's misconceptions about freedom. We often think freedom as simply consisting in doing what we want or in the absence of obstacles to getting what we want. But Kant has a more stringent demanding notion of what it means to be free. Kact think acting to satisfy freedom is just acting according to natural necessity. And for Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity and is to obey your thirsty.To act freely is to act autonomously and to act according to a law that I give myself, not according to the physical laws of nature or the laws of cause and effect which include my desire to eat or to drink or to choose.

    Secondly,Li doesn't conflict with human emotional instinct and free spirit but protect them. Li relies on moral education to guide people to respect others and observe discipline. Although all kinds of ritual systems gain or lose and change with the development of society or the replacement of dynasties, "Li" has always been the theoretical basis and value standard of various systems in ancient society of our country for thousands of years, and has always been the ideal system pattern pursued by the ideology of feudal dynasties in our country.

    Thirdly,different culture has different ways to protect people's freedom.Generally speaking, countries bordering the sea have developed commerce, while contiental countries mainly develop agriculture. In martime countries, people have greater opportunity to see different people with different customs and different languages; they are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.While in contiental countries, people are primitive and innocent, they are easily made content. They desire no change nor can they conceive of any change. We can say that people in the maritime country are the wise,while those of continental countries are the good. The wise are happy; the good endure. Therefore, Li ia adapted to the characteristics of people in contiental countries.

    In short, we cannot draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity.

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  • 晁晨宇 11-24

    In order to answer this question, we first need to understand what truly makes us human, that is, the essence of human emotions and what constitutes a genuine spirit of freedom.

     

    Distinguishing itself from ordinary animals, human emotions can command human behavior. They transcend primitive natural needs and are generated by consciousness and guided by consciousness. As for the genuine spirit of freedom, in the words of Kant, it is to follow the laws that one sets for oneself, not to follow natural instincts, but often to go against them.

     

    The Western advocated spirit of freedom has its natural foundation. Due to the emphasis on commerce and the city-state as the foundation, frequent maritime trade and broad activities, the element of "change" predominates in people's thinking. For merchants, freedom and innovation are their pursuits. However, looking at Chinese society, where the nation and the family are integrated, with the family as the foundation and a focus on agriculture, there is hardly any population mobility. Therefore, the laws of the country are naturally influenced by the laws of the family. In the family, the authority of the elders naturally surpasses that of the younger generation, resulting in a hierarchical structure based on age.

     

    Taking Confucius' advocacy of "Li" into consideration, Li itself is a rule that regulates this hierarchical structure. This ideology not only has its social foundation but also contradicts primitive desires as a form of restraint. To achieve "Li," one must understand what truly matters to the family, rather than satisfying one's own desires. From this perspective, "Li" aligns well with Kant's description of freedom, as they both follow the laws set by oneself.

     

    In summary, Confucius' ideology and Western assertions have their respective foundations, yet they share similarities at their core. Their attitudes towards emotions and the spirit of freedom are quite similar. Superficially interpreting Confucius' ideology without deep contemplation would be shallow. Just as when we simply look at the Western spirit of freedom and human nature without careful thought, we might perceive them as primitive instincts, making it difficult to differentiate between humans and animals. Therefore, we cannot reduce Confucius' ideology to being inhumane. On the contrary, it originates from the unique human nature that humans possess.

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  • 14班冉盈盈 11-24

    1. In Kant's opinion, "Freedom" means individuals know what to do and can exercise their rights according to their own ideas, without external coercion or interference. Of course, this idea has moral constraints, not unlimited. Meanwhile, they should be responsible to their actions.

     

     

     

    2. My history teacher once said that the economic base determines the superstructure. At that time, the economy was not developed, so the social system needed rites to help stabilize the society. And "Li" perfectly meet this requirement, so in ancient times has been used as a spiritual tool to maintain social stability.

     

    3. Greek mythology is a part of ancient Greek culture, which is dominated by stories of gods and heroes, in which the interaction and conflict between humans and gods became the basis of ancient Greek philosophical and religious thinking.

     

    Reflections on the origin of the universe: Greek mythology contains reflections on the origin of the universe and the laws of nature. This prompted the ancient Greek philosophers to deeply explore the origin, origin and structure of the universe, forming the basis of metaphysics.

    Reflections on human destiny: The heroic legends of Greek mythology highlight human reflections on destiny and individual freedom. The heroes went through arduous trials and demonstrated the perseverance and willpower of human beings. This led philosophers to think about the relationship between human free will and destiny, which involved metaphysical questions.

    Moral and ethical reflections: Stories in Greek mythology deal with questions of morality and ethics, exploring justice, morality, and the consequences of human actions. These reflections influenced later philosophers and promoted the development of ethics.

    The idea of a single God: Greek mythology does not have a single almighty God like monotheism, but a complex system of gods. However, this complexity has also led some philosophers to wonder whether there is a higher, single reason for the existence of the universe. This kind of thinking was reflected in the later development of monotheism. 

    4. N o. Confucianism emphasizes the existence of rites, this is only an effort for social stability. He just wanted everyone to go their own way, that is, to do their own thing in their own place and not disturb each other. It may feel like a restriction on people's freedom, but it's another way of ensuring social order. In addition, etiquette is also a positive guide to human nature, rather than oppression.

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  • 9班胡明月 11-24

    No, we can't draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. I'd like to illustrate my explanation from two aspects.
    Firstly, it's indispensable for us to figure out Kant's theory of freedom. According to Kant, freedom is the opposite of necessity. When we act to satisfy our desires and impulses, we just act according to natural necessity, which shows we are not free. So, the conception of freedom is to act autonomously or to act according to a law I give myself without interference or coercion.
    Secondly, there are differences in political and economic structure between maritime countries and continental countries. Take the Greeks and Chinese as comparable examples, we can see that the Greeks, who lived in a maritime country, live together in towns, so they are in the same class without priority. While in China, the state conceived of the family, the social organization is automatic and hierarchic because a father is regarded to be superior to the son. Hence, ancient China need ritual to maintain the social class differences.
    In conclusion, the real freedom is not doing what we want to do without any obstacles in Kant's view. We need to be autonomous and selfdisciplined. And China, as a family state, has different political and economical structure from the west countries, which results in the belief of rituals.

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  • 13班曾欣怡 11-24

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    "Freedom" in Kant's justice philosophy refers to the state where individuals exercise their rights and pursue goals without external interference. Kant argues that freedom is an inherent right of humanity, but it should be constrained by moral principles to ensure harmony between individual and collective freedoms.

     2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    Rites played an important role in maintaining social order and governing the country and the country in ancient Chinese society.

    In ancient China, Li had the function of law. Li and law depend on each other. But Li and law are not exactly the same. Li are pushed from the society to the government, while the law is pushed down from the government to the society. Li leads people to freedom and restricts people's behavior.

    3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The Greeks lived ina maritime country and maintained their prosperity thought commerce.

    They were primarily merchants. And what merchants have to deal with first are the abstract numbers used in their commercial accounts, and

    only then with concrete things that may have immediately apprehended through these numbers.Such numbers are what Northrop called concepts by postulation.Hence Greek philosopher s likewise took the concept by postulation as their starting point.They developed mathematics and mathematical reasoning. That is why they had epistemological problem and why their language was so articulate.

    they are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.

    Continental Countries

    This is the view of one who admire the natural and condemns the artificial. The way of life of the farmers is to follow nature. They admire nature and condemn the artificial, and in their primitivity and innocent, they are easily made content.

    In short,

    Confucius  isn’t in line with inhumanity. In contrast, Li is humane. Although Li is a system of social norms, it is not exactly the same as law. The core of Li is virtue, which means that Li is more like the middle ground between morality and law. And the standards of moral is different for everyone. So Li shows a kind of freedom, a kind of humane. If we equal freedom with humane, and form Kant’s idea that freedom is the opposite of necessity, the conclusion that Li is inhumanity is untenable. To some extent, Li regulates people daily deeds. For example, in ancient society, without Li, there is no need to respect your parents and your majesty. And the human nature is lazy. If we follow the bonds of Li, we fight against with our natural appetite and desires and show the freedom and humane.

     

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  • 刘星君 11-24

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    "Freedom" in Kant's justice philosophy refers to the state where individuals exercise their rights and pursue goals without external interference. Kant argues that freedom is an inherent right of humanity, but it should be constrained by moral principles to ensure harmony between individual and collective freedoms.

     2. Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"?

    Rites played an important role in maintaining social order and governing the country and the country in ancient Chinese society.

    In ancient China, Li had the function of law. Li and law depend on each other. But Li and law are not exactly the same. Li are pushed from the society to the government, while the law is pushed down from the government to the society. Li leads people to freedom and restricts people's behavior.

    3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The Greeks lived ina maritime country and maintained their prosperity thought commerce.

    They were primarily merchants. And what merchants have to deal with first are the abstract numbers used in their commercial accounts, and

    only then with concrete things that may have immediately apprehended through these numbers.Such numbers are what Northrop called concepts by postulation.Hence Greek philosopher s likewise took the concept by postulation as their starting point.They developed mathematics and mathematical reasoning. That is why they had epistemological problem and why their language was so articulate.

    they are accustomed to change and are not afraid of novelty.

    Continental Countries

    This is the view of one who admire the natural and condemns the artificial. The way of life of the farmers is to follow nature. They admire nature and condemn the artificial, and in their primitivity and innocent, they are easily made content.

    In short,

    Confucius  isn’t in line with inhumanity. In contrast, Li is humane. Although Li is a system of social norms, it is not exactly the same as law. The core of Li is virtue, which means that Li is more like the middle ground between morality and law. And the standards of moral is different for everyone. So Li shows a kind of freedom, a kind of humane. If we equal freedom with humane, and form Kant’s idea that freedom is the opposite of necessity, the conclusion that Li is inhumanity is untenable. To some extent, Li regulates people daily deeds. For example, in ancient society, without Li, there is no need to respect your parents and your majesty. And the human nature is lazy. If we follow the bonds of Li, we fight against with our natural appetite and desires and show the freedom and humane.

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  • 14班李志龙 11-24

    No, I think Confucius'Li is in line with humanity. Here his Li means order in society or the universe. We need order to limit people's behaviors so that the society will be stable.Confucius emphasized the importance of Li as a way to cultivate proper conduct, social harmony, and moral character. While some may Li as rigid and restrictive, Confucius intended for its practice to guide individuals towards benevolence, compassion, and ethical behavior. Confucius believed that by adhering to Li, individuals could create a harmonious society and develop their moral character. Threrfore, I disagree with Bertrand Russel's opinion.

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  • 郝鑫波 11-24

    1. What is "Freedom"? (on Kant's idea of Justice)

    Kant's conception of justice is predicated on the idea of freedom, which he defines as the capacity to act in accordance with one's own will free from outside pressure or intervention. Since freedom grants people the ability to choose for themselves and accept responsibility for their acts, it can be seen as the cornerstone of justice.

     

    2.Why does the traditional Chinese society's economic and political structure need "Ritual"

    "Ritual" in traditional Chinese culture refers not only to an event but also to a set of moral principles that uphold social order. "Ritual" promotes social harmony by enforcing rules that incentivize people to give priority to societal objectives. Establishing a set of comparatively established social norms and moral standards plays a crucial function in the economic and political structure by supporting the stabilization of societal relations and governance.

    3. Maritime Countries and Continental Countries

    The characteristics of continental countries are agriculture and animal husbandry as the main mode of production, while maritime countries are characterized by commercial trade as the main mode of production. In addition, continental countries have strong cohesion, while maritime countries tend to develop outward and are adventurous. The continental countries are conservative, while the maritime countries are more likely to absorb new knowledge.

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  • 黄天 11-24

    1. According to kant’s opinion, freedom is the opposite of the necessity. To be free means to act autonomously and to act according to the law I give myself. 

    2. The traditional political structure of China is highly centralized centralization and autocratic monarchy. In this context, the monarch needs a complete theoretical system to rule the people. The emergence of ritual provides the theoretical basis and institutional guarantee for the existence of absolute monarchy. China's traditional economic structure is a small-scale peasant economy, and only ritual is suitable for this economic model. The distribution of land and the management of farmers all need ritual.

    3. As far as we know, China is a continental country, people rely on farming to support themselves and are easy to meet. In our family, the authority of the fathers is above that of their sons. At the same time, people who respect nature maintain a critical and opposition attitude to any innovation opposite to nature, so people's nature is suppressed to a certain extent.

    4. the Hellenistic tradition in Western culture provided the intellectual, cultural, and religious context that gave rise to metaphysical inquiry and the development of monotheistic beliefs.

          Therefore, we can’t draw the conclusion that Confucius is in line with inhumanity. Based on the special political and economic structure of ancient China, we need the theory of Confucius to effectively govern the country and get better development. The ritual in Confucius' thought emphasized the class system and the hierarchy of different classes. This is the overall requirement for the whole society, and does not mean the repression of individual freedom and nature. In the context of ritual and music system, people's nature has been suppressed to a certain extent, not by inhuman oppression. Only under the constraints of this system can people better realize their self-value to a certain extent.

     

     

     

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  • 吴青倩 11-24

    1. What does kant think freedom is?

    In the video, kant has a more stringent define of freedom. He argued that freedom is not determined by external factors or desires, but by the individual's ability to act in accordance with universal more laws. What's more, Kant's concept of freedom emphasizes the impotance of retionality and moral autonomy. 

    2. Why China's Traditional Economic and Political Structure Needs "Li"?In the family state, unlike the city state, social organization is automatic and hierarchical. China has a vast territory, abundant resources and a large population. The political structure of a small country cannot be applied to our country.

    The one key reasons is because Li provide a framework for ethical behavior and moral governance. Li emphasize the importance of virtue, righteousness, and proper conduct in all aspects of life. In the economic sphere, this means promoting fair trade, honesty, and integrity in business transactions. In the political sphere, it means upholding justice, serving the people, and maintaining social harmony.

    What’s more, Li also serve as a means of social control and cohesion. They provide a shared set of values, norms, and expectations that guide individuals' behavior and interactions. By adhering to these rites, individuals contribute to the overall stability and order of society. This is particularly important in a country as large and diverse as China, where maintaining social cohesion is crucial for effective governance and economic development.

    In conclusion, China's traditional economic and political structure needs rites because "Li" has played a crucial role in maintaing stability and order in Chinese society.

    3. 

    The Hellenic tradition in Western culture, which refers to the ancient Greek civilization, played a significant role in the development of metaphysics and monotheism. There are several reasons why this tradition gave birth to these philosophical and religious concepts.

    Firstly, the ancient Greeks, particularly the philosophers of the Hellenic tradition, were known for their curiosity and rational inquiry into the nature of reality. They sought to understand the fundamental principles and causes of the universe. This philosophical inquiry led to the development of metaphysics.

    Whats more, the Hellenic tradition emphasized the use of reason and logic in understanding the world. Greek philosophers, such as Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, developed logical systems and methods of inquiry that laid the foundation for metaphysical thinking.

    In addition, while ancient Greece was known for its polytheistic religion, there were also monotheistic tendencies within the Hellenic tradition. Philosophers like Xenophanes and Parmenides proposed the existence of a single, supreme deity that governs the universe. These monotheistic ideas challenged the prevailing polytheistic beliefs and paved the way for the development of monotheism in later Western cultures.

    In summary, the Hellenic tradition in Western culture gave birth to metaphysics and monotheism due to its emphasis on philosophical inquiry, rationalism, logic, monotheistic tendencies.

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